Neal Driscoll

SPOT: Jonathan Martin vs. Richie Incognito

198 posts in this topic

http://touch.sun-sentinel.com/#section/1204/article/p2p-78065907/

And the Incognito as the scapegoat angle is in full play right now.

Thank you.... and good night.

You article that you just posted said

"Linebacker Dannell Ellerbe indicated that Martin should have come to the leadership council with his problems, which apparently carried over to his second season. The problem is Incognito was also on the leadership council, and possessed a tremendous amount of power and influence.

That might explains why Martin hid his issues with Incognito, and on occasion hung around with him in South Florida, and during road trips. It is possible Martin felt he had to do so to feel accepted."

Again, said a hundred times on here, the bully, name caller, teaser, jokester, asshole, whatever you want to call him doesn't get to decide how his actions affected Martin and Martin's mind. Period.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where has there been any violence? Am i missing something? Where was Incognito violent towards Martin? Im only aware of harassment. If things were violent then it would be clearly too far. But a grown man just teasing another grown man? C'mon now. And its no big deal that it even got to Martin because Cognito was being a bit harsh but he could have come to other players about it and they could have resolved it internally instead of having this fiasco.

Haven't seen violence...yet. but incognito has a long long history of violence in and out of the game. Ones his dad almost brags about on the things I was reading. My post below touches on why he probably didn't tell anyone. I think the biggest problem everyone is having is these are two big bad football players. Not the nerdy kid who gets picked on by the jersey kid with an affliction shirt...wait...if you look at these two, maybe it is that still...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh man, this series of tweets is killing me. If you know A Few Good Men, you'll enjoy this. I have to include it:











https://twitter.com/Adam_Jacobi/status/397914356454682624
https://twitter.com/Adam_Jacobi/status/397914669957906432
https://twitter.com/Adam_Jacobi/status/397914805819801600
https://twitter.com/Adam_Jacobi/status/397914927282675712
https://twitter.com/Adam_Jacobi/status/397915023227355136
https://twitter.com/Adam_Jacobi/status/397915200621248512
https://twitter.com/Adam_Jacobi/status/397915406746140674

 

Transcribed in full:

Colonel Joseph R. Philbin, Commanding Officer, National Football League, Miami, Florida.

Have you ever spent time on a football team, son? Ever served on an offensive line? Ever put your block in another lineman's hands, ask him to put his block in yours? We run plays, son. We run plays or people get sacked. Son, we live in a world that has offensive lines, and those lines have to be filled by 350-pound men with helmets. Who's gonna do it? You? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Martin, and you curse the Dolphins' o-line. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what coaches know. That Martin's departure, while tragic, probably saved Ryan Tannehill's life. And Richie Incognito's existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves quarterbacks' lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about on Twitter, you want him on that line. YOU NEED HIM ON THAT LINE. We use words like shiver, rip technique, smash. We use those words as a backbone of a life spent defending quarterbacks. You use them as a comment on Pro Football Talk. I have neither the TIME nor the INCLINATION to EXPLAIN MYSELF to a man who rises and sleeps under the fandom of the very team I coach... and then bitches on Twitter about the way I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and bought a season ticket. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a helmet, and stand at left tackle. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you football fans think you're entitled to. *Did you order the code red?* YOU'RE GOD DAMN RIGHT I DID! - Joe Philbin 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You article that you just posted said

"Linebacker Dannell Ellerbe indicated that Martin should have come to the leadership council with his problems, which apparently carried over to his second season. The problem is Incognito was also on the leadership council, and possessed a tremendous amount of power and influence.

That might explains why Martin hid his issues with Incognito, and on occasion hung around with him in South Florida, and during road trips. It is possible Martin felt he had to do so to feel accepted."

Again, said a hundred times on here, the bully, name caller, teaser, jokester, asshole, whatever you want to call him doesn't get to decide how his actions affected Martin and Martin's mind. Period.

 

Ryan your hurting my feelings really bad right now. And since you dont get to decide how your actions affect me, or my mind, I think you need to be banned indefinitely. ( :

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haven't seen violence...yet. but incognito has a long long history of violence in and out of the game. Ones his dad almost brags about on the things I was reading. My post below touches on why he probably didn't tell anyone. I think the biggest problem everyone is having is these are two big bad football players. Not the nerdy kid who gets picked on by the jersey kid with an affliction shirt...wait...if you look at these two, maybe it is that still...

George S Patton was such a horrible bully. He had such a long history of pushing his soldiers too hard. He got in trouble because he bitch smacked a soldier for being a pussy and the soldier told on him. He is such a horrid human being. Oh wait he is probably one of the most famous and popular figures in American history. Gaawwwshh im so confizzled. Lets go ahead and condemn Incognito to hell because of his insensitivity towards others. He is the devil. Lets crucify him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

George S Patton was such a horrible bully. He had such a long history of pushing his soldiers too hard. He got in trouble because he bitch smacked a soldier for being a pussy and the soldier told on him. He is such a horrid human being. Oh wait he is probably one of the most famous and popular figures in American history. Gaawwwshh im so confizzled. Lets go ahead and condemn Incognito to hell because of his insensitivity towards others. He is the devil. Lets crucify him.

I assume you've moved past making points since you moved to funny comments, the first one, then Patton and sarcasm.

But in all seriousness I'm off this one. Can't compute the thought process behind acceptable and unacceptable bullying in some people's mind. Incognito guilty of that or not. Its all a form of the same issues that the world continually deals with. At some point, maybe we'll all realize being dicks to each other, in whatever way that is, can actually be a bad thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm on the side that this is getting way more publicity than it needs to, but in light of the NFL's recent campaigns against bullying, I can't say I'm surprised.

 

This is just embarrassing all around, for both Martin and Incognito. For starters, Martin has given himself a soft reputation. Who wants a guy who apparently can't get along with his own teammates at the professional level, and even worse, can't grow a thick enough skin to let things roll off his back. I'm not justifying Incognito's actions, but there are much less whiny ways to handle this situation than abruptly leaving the team and alerting the media. You're a large man. If someone insults you in a defamatory manner as Incognito did, take it up with your fist. Fights happen in NFL locker rooms all the time, and they are often times more constructive than we are led to believe.

 

As for Incognito, the dude looks like a tool. I look at that picture at the top of the post and immediately visualize him as the fat bully in elementary school who turns all the skinny kids upside down and shakes the lunch money out of their pockets. Aside from his demeanor, though, what he did has no place in any setting. When a teammate is down or struggling through depression, the last thing you should do is continue to insult him. Judging by his racist remarks, Incognito obviously lacks discernment, and even more, a kind heart. He's probably very insecure. I wouldn't want him on my team either. Guys like this can't seem to take the focus off themselves.

 

Overall, the fact that neither of these "grown men" could reconcile speaks volumes to their maturity levels. I look for both to be out of action for awhile. Ultimately, Joe Philbin, the coaching staff, and the Dolphins' captains need to take a long look at themselves for letting this reach the boiling point. Manage your team properly and you won't have these issues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm on the side that this is getting way more publicity than it needs to, but in light of the NFL's recent campaigns against bullying, I can't say I'm surprised.

 

This is just embarrassing all around, for both Martin and Incognito. For starters, Martin has given himself a soft reputation. Who wants a guy who apparently can't get along with his own teammates at the professional level, and even worse, can't grow a thick enough skin to let things roll off his back. I'm not justifying Incognito's actions, but there are much less whiny ways to handle this situation than abruptly leaving the team and alerting the media. You're a large man. If someone insults you in a defamatory manner as Incognito did, take it up with your fist. Fights happen in NFL locker rooms all the time, and they are often times more constructive than we are led to believe.

 

As for Incognito, the dude looks like a tool. I look at that picture at the top of the post and immediately visualize him as the fat bully in elementary school who turns all the skinny kids upside down and shakes the lunch money out of their pockets. Aside from his demeanor, though, what he did has no place in any setting. When a teammate is down or struggling through depression, the last thing you should do is continue to insult him. Judging by his racist remarks, Incognito obviously lacks discernment, and even more, a kind heart. He's probably very insecure. I wouldn't want him on my team either. Guys like this can't seem to take the focus off themselves.

 

Overall, the fact that neither of these "grown men" could reconcile speaks volumes to their maturity levels. I look for both to be out of action for awhile. Ultimately, Joe Philbin, the coaching staff, and the Dolphins' captains need to take a long look at themselves for letting this reach the boiling point. Manage your team properly and you won't have these issues.

 

I would have to say this kind of reflects my thoughts exactly. Im also trying to withhold judgement until all the facts come out. If they come out.

PhinsUp and Rybcon like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not going to bother reading through all this thread but I'll just ad my thoughts:

 

Jonathan Martin's problems clearly run deeper than just being bullied, and the fact people are calling him soft and whatever's fucking sickening at this point, IMO. If it all comes out that he's some spoilt fuckhead then fine, but most mental health conditions are far worse than many people are willing to recognise.

Ryan Sesler and Lucas Polglaze like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm on the side that this is getting way more publicity than it needs to, but in light of the NFL's recent campaigns against bullying, I can't say I'm surprised.

 

This is just embarrassing all around, for both Martin and Incognito. For starters, Martin has given himself a soft reputation. Who wants a guy who apparently can't get along with his own teammates at the professional level, and even worse, can't grow a thick enough skin to let things roll off his back. I'm not justifying Incognito's actions, but there are much less whiny ways to handle this situation than abruptly leaving the team and alerting the media. You're a large man. If someone insults you in a defamatory manner as Incognito did, take it up with your fist. Fights happen in NFL locker rooms all the time, and they are often times more constructive than we are led to believe.

 

As for Incognito, the dude looks like a tool. I look at that picture at the top of the post and immediately visualize him as the fat bully in elementary school who turns all the skinny kids upside down and shakes the lunch money out of their pockets. Aside from his demeanor, though, what he did has no place in any setting. When a teammate is down or struggling through depression, the last thing you should do is continue to insult him. Judging by his racist remarks, Incognito obviously lacks discernment, and even more, a kind heart. He's probably very insecure. I wouldn't want him on my team either. Guys like this can't seem to take the focus off themselves.

 

Overall, the fact that neither of these "grown men" could reconcile speaks volumes to their maturity levels. I look for both to be out of action for awhile. Ultimately, Joe Philbin, the coaching staff, and the Dolphins' captains need to take a long look at themselves for letting this reach the boiling point. Manage your team properly and you won't have these issues.

 

I tend to agree with this almost 100%

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

anyone who does not see the Dolphins are using Incognito as the scapegoat for a situation they have caused is kidding themselves at this point. 

 

He is the perfect scapegoat.... and the Dolphins got caught. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm actually amazed at the responses in this thread from most. Is absolutely ridiculous to me that anyone has bad things to say about Martin. He is supposed to take on the entire Dolphins leadership in a fight. You have to be joking. Right? Right? It took a lot more strength to walk away than throw a punch which probably just sets a psycho line RI off. Dude threatened him, his family, took money from countless players. RI should be thrown in jail and anyone found involved should be suspended and cut. I'd cut Cameron Wakes ass if I found out he was in on it. If Philbin, Ireland or any other coaches knew of this, they should be fired immediately.

Ryan Sesler and Lucas Polglaze like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me be clear in that I haven't followed this story at all, outside of what's been said and discussed in this thread. So I may be way, way off base. 

 

But - we aren't dealing with middle school, or even high school, boys here. We are dealing with grown men. Breaking my tray at lunch and telling the media is not the way this terrible situation should be handled. 

 

Every single person in that locker room is responsible in one way or another. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it turns out Martin really does have serious mental issues, then I feel for him. However, countless others in the NFL have had similar issues over the years and haven't handled it in the way he did. Seek counseling and medical help if you are having those kinds of problems. Don't have a serious breakdown and bring your entire team down with you. What Incognito did was wrong. We get that. But Martin didn't need to react in the way he did. I still stand by the notion that a little fight or cheap shot on the practice field to shut Incognito up would have been much more beneficial than this whole debacle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me be clear in that I haven't followed this story at all, outside of what's been said and discussed in this thread. So I may be way, way off base.

But - we aren't dealing with middle school, or even high school, boys here. We are dealing with grown men. Breaking my tray at lunch and telling the media is not the way this terrible situation should be handled.

Every single person in that locker room is responsible in one way or another.

When the veterans of your team are extorting money from the rookies and young players they all need to be cut. That is exactly what RI was doing on top of the racial texts and voicemails threatening JM and his family. Per reports RI isn't the only player about to come under fire. Reports have said Pouncey was part of it. Nothing RI did was ok and I applaud Martin for just getting up and walking away. Martin also didn't tell the media.

Ryan Sesler and Lucas Polglaze like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it turns out Martin really does have serious mental issues, then I feel for him. However, countless others in the NFL have had similar issues over the years and haven't handled it in the way he did. Seek counseling and medical help if you are having those kinds of problems. Don't have a serious breakdown and bring your entire team down with you. What Incognito did was wrong. We get that. But Martin didn't need to react in the way he did. I still stand by the notion that a little fight or cheap shot on the practice field to shut Incognito up would have been much more beneficial than this whole debacle.

The problem is IT WASNT JUST RI. IT WAS A GROUP OF PLAYERS. Was he supposed to hit or cheap shot them all?

Lucas Polglaze and Ryan Sesler like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No one is advocating what incognito and others have done.

I'm just saying that there's a better way for Martin to handle the situation then how he did. There's a private way to handle the mess that doesn't end with a media circus. Going to the teams leadership group, which incognito served obviously wasn't a solution either. There are other ways.

airmcnair4ever likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No one is advocating what incognito and others have done.

I'm just saying that there's a better way for Martin to handle the situation then how he did. There's a private way to handle the mess that doesn't end with a media circus. Going to the teams leadership group, which incognito served obviously wasn't a solution either. There are other ways.

What other ways? The coaches are the ones that told Incognito to toughen him up. After your teammates and coaches who do you go to? A media circus is exactly what this situation needs. Incognito needs to be out of the league and players and coaches need held accountable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to wonder if some of you blame rape victims because they wore a dress that was a little too tight or showed too much skin?

It doesnt matter what Matin did or didnt do, he shouldnt have been put in a position where he needed to do anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to wonder if some of you blame rape victims because they wore a dress that was a little too tight or showed too much skin?

It doesnt matter what Matin did or didnt do, he shouldnt have been put in a position where he needed to do anything.

 

Fair point. 

 

But in the grand scheme of things, the entire season is now done for everyone on the team as opposed to a handful of people. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fair point.

But in the grand scheme of things, the entire season is now done for everyone on the team as opposed to a handful of people.

As it should be because the entire team is at fault.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What other ways? The coaches are the ones that told Incognito to toughen him up. After your teammates and coaches who do you go to? A media circus is exactly what this situation needs. Incognito needs to be out of the league and players and coaches need held accountable.

 

There's a big difference in toughening up a player and doing the stuff that Incognito did. Hopefully one of the many coaches can see the difference and do something about it. 

 

There are 53 players on the roster, not all of them are in on this. Someone can go to the coaches or other personal and at least attempt to keep this a private matter. 

 

I would agree that the coaches and players responsible need to be held accountable. But I still feel this could have happened differently. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now