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Miller vs. Houston: Fans Square Off



In the greatest faceoff since we argued over Brandon Flowers and Champ Bailey, I take on Seth Keysor as we discuss Justin Houston and Von Miller: who's the better defender?
It's the eternal sports fan debate. "My team's guy is better than your team's guy." Every single person in the world has had this argument at one point or another (with exceptions being made for infants, naturally). These arguments are especially bitter between division rivals, and as of late Chiefs fans and Broncos fans have elevated their feud to nearly "Game of Thrones"-like status in their arguments over players at similar positions. No one has been decapitated as of this writing, but I assume that's just a matter of time.

Last time we broke down the elite cornerbacks on these two teams: Brandon Flowers and Champ Bailey.

Now, this time, it's go big or go home. We've set up for an epic battle here, a battle for the ages. If Peter Jackson were directing, this showdown would win Oscars. Stand clear, this could get messy.

My opponent: Seth Keysor. A devoted Chiefs fans and a heck of a guy.
But he's got his work cut out for him this time…
It’s the battle of the elite defenders! Seth supports Justin Houston of the Chiefs…my guy? Von Miller of the Broncos. A clash of outside linebacker/pass rush elite/player extraordinaires.

The tension is audible...the audience hushed...let's get under way.

Let's get down to it then. Seth, first of all, thanks for being here. Second of all, Justin Houston. What is so special about this guy?

Seth:
Man, you should've asked me an easier question. Like, "what's NOT special about Justin Houston?"

Because that answer would've been simple; basically nothing. Houston is one of the most physically gifted players on the planet. He's huge at 6'3", 260 pounds, but he's a gifted athlete. He's also strong as an ox, with long arms to boot. His first step is incredible, his punch is ridiculous, his bend is phenomenal.

He can do anything. He can stand up OL and give zero ground. He can stack blockers and stuff the run. He can bull rush or speed rush. He can drop back into coverage. Basically, his toolbox as a player is limitless. His versatility is literally unparalleled at his position. No one can do everything the way Justin Houston can.

That enough for you?

Lucas:
Well, that is all very impressive. But keep in mind Von Miller is an extremely versatile player as well. He is 6'3", 250...so just a little lighter than your guy. But he ran a 4.49 40 yard dash. That is beyond incredible.

The guy can pass rush. He is a machine. I challenge you to watch this video. His bend under the reach of Raiders RT Khalif Barnes is unhuman. It doesn't seem physically possible to dip that kind of frame that low at that kind of speed...and keep your footing perfectly.

Von is effectively built to rush the passer. That's where his skillset lies. Yet, this is a hungry kid. He is only going into his third year, and yet he already realizes that he wants to round out his game.

“I think I’ve definitely improved, especially in coverage,” Miller said. “If you ask [Linebackers] Coach [Richard] Smith, he’ll say that I’ve still got a lot of work to do. I think I still have a lot of work to do, but we’ve got some great receivers and I think I’ve been doing a great job with those guys.”
http://predominantly...-into-ambition/

I want to cut down on some of the mental errors, working a little more on technique. I want to be technically sound on every single play. I want to be able to respond and react in tight situations.
Interview with Mile High Report,
http://www.milehighr...with-von-miller



There is no question that Von ranks among the best pass rushers in the league. But a Von Miller who has the capability to drop into coverage is a defensive coordinator's dream.

Seth:
Hey, no one is going to argue with you about Miller's pass rushing. The guy is a monster. That move on Barnes was incredible. Now, to be fair... it was Khalif Barnes. I mean, c'mon now. I'm not going to show you a video of Justin Houston owning me in a pass-rushing drill. And that's pretty much the same thing (rim shot on Raiders! High fives all around!)

And I gotta say... IS Von a "versatile" player? I mean, I see a guy who has the athleticism to run all over the field. there's no denying it. If you keep blockers off him, he'll definitely make plays. And I'll willingly concede the point that Von, last year, was a more productive pass rusher than Houston was last year. Of course, it's not nearly the blowout that most Denver fans want to pretend it is. Now go ahead and pick your jaw up off the floor and let's look at a few things regarding pass rushing.

Last year, Miller rushed the passer 498 times. That's what'll happen when your defense is constantly in the lead and your coach is smart enough to send his best rushers. Houston, on the other hand, only rushed the passer 352 times all season. So when people point to Von's (admittedly) superior numbers and say "it's not even close!!!!" they're only telling half the story. Miller was put in a dream scenario to put up big pass rushing stats (knowing the other team is passing) and got a chance to do so 150 extra times. Dude had all the advantages.

But let's say Miller is the superior pass rusher, just for kicks and giggles. Even then, Houston's overall game still puts him over the top. Houston can do all the things Miller can do. He can drop into coverage, he can run around and make plays, he can speed rush, etc. But Miller CANNOT do everything Houston can do. In a pinch, you can throw Houston on the line and say, "we need you to stand up this OT and hold him off, then shed his block to make a tackle down the line." And Houston can do that. because he's also a BULL. Miller can't do that. He's almost exclusively reliant on that remarkable athleticism. If Miller's on the line, you run the ball right at him. With Houston, that's suicide for the run game.

So what you've got is a (right now at least) one-trick pony vs. a guy who excels in all facets of the game. Sure, Von's trying to improve his all-around game. You can find another guy like Von Miller if you look around the league (again, Aldon Smith). But you can't find another Justin Houston.

Lucas:
I fully agree. Justin Houston is a versatile player.

But to say that Miller is bad against the run is foolhardy. That's lunacy. He had 28 Tackles for Loss (TFL) last year, second to only J.J. Watt, with 13 “run stuffs”. And 21 TFL the year before that.
He can play the run just as good as his pass rush.

Might I remind you of a certain run snap that the Chiefs ran right at him and that Miller absolutely blew up?
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A straight-forward run off LT.
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FB DiMarco tries to go low on Miller. Mistake.
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TFL. Massive loss, play absolutely blown up by Miller. (pictures from http://www.itsallove...r-and-the-shed)

Aldon Smith used to get subbed out on run downs. Miller stayed in because he's capable of that.

And did either Houston or Aldon Smith have a pick 6 from being dropped into coverage? No, but Miller did.

Seth:
You had to rub salt on old wounds, didn't you? You're funny! That's it, the gloves are off, my friend.

Hey, yeah, that is a very impressive play by Von. He does a nice job keeping Pancakes DiMarco (not really living up to the name there) off him and makes a great tackle for a loss. Maybe the Aldon Smith comparison isn't quite fair.

But... how does that play show Miller's strength? Dude's standing up at the snap and is left alone in space against the fullback because the RDE takes on our LT. Basically, it's the same story; Miller gets it done when other players keep offensive linemen off him. And no doubt, he is GREAT at that. But he can't do it on his own.

That type of play, while a great play, can be made by tons of different linebackers. Justin Houston can make that play. My point is that while Miller is great at what he does, he's limited by a lack of strength. Now, it's not like he's a WR out there or anything. But he is what he is; a finesse player. He's locked into a certain number of roles. Houston doesn't have that kind of limitation. Need a 4-3 DL? Great. An OLB? Sure, why not. An ILB? Great. Miller can do most of that. But not all of it.

What's more, with Justin Houston, what AREN'T you getting? You know what I'm about to say, right? You know I have to, right? You know what you aren't getting with Houston?

Drama.

Yep, sorry, I have to go here. With Von Miller comes drama. And risk. The guy is already suspended 4 games to start this season. And let's face it, that appeal didn't have a great shot BEFORE the newest drama came out. Are you really comfortable relying on a guy who can't even manage to make a court appearance? If Von lived in the real world he would've been arrested months ago for that failure to appear, and he absolutely would not have been given a Sunday hearing and let out on a mere thousand dollar bond. Dude got star treatment. And that, my friend, is a dangerous sign.

So with Von you've got a guy who is actively showing he's not going to comply with league rules. If he messes up again, his next suspension will likely be for half a year. Or possibly even more.

With Houston, you don't have that risk (at least at the moment, gimme a second to throw some salt over my shoulder... OK, I'm good).

More versatility? Check. Less of a headache? Check. Give me Houston all day!

Lucas:
No, I only chose that play because I knew I had screenshots of it bookmarked. So it's nothing against you.

I disagree with what you say here. Defensive lineman haven't really been our strength of recent in Denver. And before you say Dumervil, he was a liability against the run.

OK, you had to talk about drama, didn't you. Gloves are off. No holds barred now! Cage fight.

Yes, Von has maturity issues. However, there is a fairly good chance that that suspension gets overturned since, from all official accounts, there's a good chance that the suspension is resulting from a missed test, not a failed one. And some have said that they believe that missed test happened during Von's USO tour of troops in Afghanistan for the NFL. So that might be overturned.

However, I cannot defend the rest of it. Miller has All Pro talent, Hall of Fame talent...Greatest of All Time talent. But get a straight head on your shoulders, son! You have phenomenal talent, all that money, do something intelligent about it!

And there was no star treatment involved in the arrest.
Here's the inside scoop: he missed a court appearance, which resulted in having a warrant put out on him. It's a low-level warrant though (from what I'm told about this kind of situation) which doesn't actually require police to immediately go and arrest them. It often comes up at a routine traffic stop..you run the name, find out the guy has a warrant, you arrest.
However, Von was out buying a gun. The background search on that triggered the warrant, the police come on the call, arrest him then. No star treatment involved. That's all.

So yes Von's actions are a headache. I cannot defend what he's done in the least.

However, we're talking about a guy who's a 2-time All Pro and defensive rookie of the year from a draft that had Aldon Smith, Patrick Peterson, J.J. Watt and Prince Amukamara. That isn't impressive enough for you? You're seriously telling me "Give me Houston all day!"

My question to you is, if Houston is that impressive, why is nobody talking about him?

Seth:
Oh man, you didn't just try and tell a public defender how arrest warrants for low-level offenses work, did you? :) I have a few clients who would love to beg to differ on the subject. Of course, they're stuck in jail for failing to appear in court, so they can't....

I promise you, I absolutely PROMISE you, that with an arrest warrant, if the cops know the location of a guy for a fact, they go ahead and grab him. Doesn't matter if it's for a FTA. Half the people I represent do over-nighters because of FTA's. The reason people don't get arrested for those types of warrants until a traffic stop is that cops don't know where they are and aren't going to waste time looking for them. With Von, they knew exactly where he was the moment the warrant was signed by a judge. Also, notice that the arrest warrant wasn't signed the day of his FTA (usually standard practice)? And then it got signed in January? Weird, huh? Kinda like it got signed off AFTER football season.

Of course, it could well be that the court thought Miller would take care of it so they gave him a chance to correct the FTA. But that makes it even worse. He had months to take care of this and just chose not to. That's not a good sign. He received notice of the warrant out on him and chose to just... ignore it.

Now, with regards to the test... in my field, someone skipping out on tests is the same thing as failing one. So that (if true) doesn't really show me much other than one more example that he's irresponsible and thinks rules don't apply to him. Doesn't need to take tests. Doesn't need to show up for appointments. Doesn't need to go to court. What rules DOES Von Miller need to follow like the rest of us normal folk? (see how I'm turning it into a class war? Gotta love a good diversion...)

But hey, all that's periphery, isn't it? For all I know, the guy is as innocent as a newborn baby. And to quote a former Chief, "all this for a little weed?"

Back to football. Why isn't anyone talking about Houston? The same reason no one is talking about Kyle Williams with the Bills. When your team sucks, no one cares what you do. Williams is an absolute beast, but you never hear about the guy. Plus, it's not as though Houston is some total unknown. He DID make the Pro Bowl last year. And finally, are we really going to use the "nobody is talking about him" reason to say a guy can't ball? No one outside of Denver talks about Wesley Woodyard. No one. Tell me, how do you feel about him?

Additionally, most casual fans don't care about all-around game. They care about flash and stats. And Von's got plenty of that. They care about how many wins the team a guy plays for has. Von's had a ton last year. Fans don't care about things like versatility. Because that stuff is boring. Only coaches care about that kind of thing. Which is the point.

I'll close with an example. Let's say you can take one of two running backs. One has absolute world-class speed, great agility, decent vision, and can catch passes like nobody's business. The other also has world-class speed, but it's not QUITE as freakish. However, he's got the same ability to catch passes, has the same agility, etc. Except... he's 15-20 pounds heavier and has better vision, which allows him to run up the gut and makes him less reliant on the offensive line. Which guy do you take? The second one, right?

Houston is the same thing. He can do everything Von Miller can do. But Miller can't do everything Houston can do. Combine that with the risks associated with Von Miller and I'll take Houston on my team every time.

Lucas:
Well, you’re right, I shouldn’t go up against a public defender in matters like these. However, it is all peripheral until the appeal is heard and the due process run through.

No, perhaps I phrased the question wrong. I meant that, since Justin Houston is so good, why isn’t anyone talking about him? It’s really more of a philosophical question. I do think it’s because (no offense) the Chiefs have been just north of dismal as of late. Woodyard is a beast, but no one has heard of him. It’s a different problem.
Houston is an elite defender. But again, nobody talks about him. And that’s a problem.

Now, your little example is flawed. Perhaps that second back can run up the middle very well. But in terms of pass blocking, he’s just no comparison to A.
Von Miller is maybe the best pass rusher in the game. You just can’t argue against that kind of talent. This is a guy that was voted to be the 9th best player in the NFL. This from a guy who’s only played two seasons. Von had just four games last season in which he didn’t have a sack. He’s put up all-time numbers in just his first two seasons. Houston may be able to do everything Von can. But he just can’t do it at the same level Von can. And that is where I draw the line.
Would I like to have Houston on my team? Yeah, of course. But he doesn’t have as much talent or potential as Von does.

Thanks for your time, Seth, and thanks for your efforts.
To the readers... Who do you think is the better player, Von or Houston? Vote in the poll and provide some comments in the section below.

Next time, we’ll discuss who the better receiver is…Demaryius Thomas…or Dwayne Bowe.

  • Seth Keysor, Charles Toomajian III and William Watts like this



22 Comments

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Seth Keysor
Aug 16 2013 04:00 PM

I feel like I should get bonus points for not need pictures to prop me up, Luc ;)

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Charles Toomajian III
Aug 16 2013 04:10 PM

Seth, if you want to conclusively win this argument I suggest doing a recap of the two players' stats one month into this season.

    • Seth Keysor likes this
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Chad Jensen
Aug 16 2013 04:56 PM

I'm sorry, but this debate isn't even close. Houston can't be compared to Miller. All you can say is that they're both pass rushers. You can't even compare Aldon Smith to Von Miller. Because without Justin Smith, Aldon disappears. Not to mention that Von Miller is a complete player. Smith is not. Miller can rush the passer, set the edge, pursue the ball carrier, cover, etc. Smith can rush the passer. Houston is a good player, don't get me wrong. But Miller is a once in a generation type player. 

    • Lucas Polglaze likes this
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Chad Jensen
Aug 16 2013 05:03 PM

If Von Miller can leave behind his silly, irresponsible off the field behavior, he could very well end his career buy surpassing Lawrence Taylor as the greatest OLB in the history of the NFL. 

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Seth Keysor
Aug 16 2013 05:04 PM

When has Von Miller ever been asked to set the edge?  Von's a pass rusher who has good run pursuit.  Houston can be lined up literally anywhere, including DL.  Miller just doesn't have the strength for that.  Dude did one more bench rep then Dexter McCluster for crying out loud... Houston's got roughly 15-20 pounds on him (probably more, when you look at the two) and is a BULL. 

 

Like I said, Houston can do everything Miller can do.  Miller can't do everything Houston can do. 

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Seth Keysor
Aug 16 2013 05:06 PM

If Von Miller can leave behind his silly, irresponsible off the field behavior, he could very well end his career buy surpassing Lawrence Taylor as the greatest OLB in the history of the NFL. 

 

Whoa, let's settle down a bit and let the guy play for at least another year or two at this level before crowning him.  Remember when Chargers fans were convinced Shawn Merriman was going to surpass LT?  To be fair, Von's not a 'roid freak. 

    • jhutch likes this
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William Watts
Aug 16 2013 05:23 PM

Seth, if you want to conclusively win this argument I suggest doing a recap of the two players' stats one month into this season.

 

One month into the season Von Miller is going to have the exact same amount of NFL stats that I will have right here on PFS.

 

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This series is awesome BFFL.

 

And this is a fair debate. If Von Miller wasn't in so much trouble lately, I could see him holding his own in this argument.

 

After all, Von isn't just one of the best pass rushers, he is one of the best players at any position in the entire NFL.

 

That said, his image as an NFL force is taking a raping that would make Mike Tyson's face tattoo turn blush... Really, I don't understand what the man is doing. Maybe he's innocent like he claims, but if he isn't...

 

I think Denver might have it's own "Lights Out" style legacy building a very short career.

 

As for Justin Houston... Chiefs fans were calling him Justin Hou"stoned" when he was drafted, especially when he didn't come to camp on time during a contract dispute. Places like Arrowhead Pride were hating him initially, it was brutal. 

 

Now, he is in the conversation with a guy like Von Miller.

 

Regardless of the winner of this argument today, I'm just glad we have a pass rusher in the fight at all. And that is not even mentioning Tamba Hali.

 

After 2-14 last year, it's the little things.

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Chad Jensen
Aug 16 2013 05:40 PM

When has Von Miller ever been asked to set the edge?  Von's a pass rusher who has good run pursuit.  Houston can be lined up literally anywhere, including DL.  Miller just doesn't have the strength for that.  Dude did one more bench rep then Dexter McCluster for crying out loud... Houston's got roughly 15-20 pounds on him (probably more, when you look at the two) and is a BULL. 

 

Like I said, Houston can do everything Miller can do.  Miller can't do everything Houston can do. 

 

 

When has Von Miller ever been asked to set the edge?  Von's a pass rusher who has good run pursuit.  Houston can be lined up literally anywhere, including DL.  Miller just doesn't have the strength for that.  Dude did one more bench rep then Dexter McCluster for crying out loud... Houston's got roughly 15-20 pounds on him (probably more, when you look at the two) and is a BULL. 

 

Like I said, Houston can do everything Miller can do.  Miller can't do everything Houston can do. 

Miller is asked to set the edge on a semi regular basis. In a 4-3 alignment, that task goes more often to the closed side DE, Derek Wolfe, or the open side DE, Robert Ayers. But Von Miller can set the edge, he can shed blocks, he can cover, pursue. 

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Chad Jensen
Aug 16 2013 05:43 PM

And it's a very cool piece, and a fun argument. But if you took this argument away from Broncos/Chiefs fans and put it it the hands of objective football minds, you would find a vast majority agreeing with yours truly. Von Millier = Elite Elite OLB. Justin Houston = Just scratching the surface of what it means to be elite. 

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Seth Keysor
Aug 16 2013 05:57 PM

I'll have to watch for Miller setting the edge this upcoming season.  I'm willing to admit perhaps he did it a ton in the other 14 games last year, so I didn't see it.

 

But against the Chiefs, he was not lining up on the line and taking on blockers.  Nor was he sealing the edge in that fashion.  He was on his feet making plays in space.

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Lucas Polglaze
Aug 16 2013 06:14 PM

I feel like I should get bonus points for not need pictures to prop me up, Luc ;)

 

Well, here are a few more for you. :)

 

When has Von Miller ever been asked to set the edge?  Von's a pass rusher who has good run pursuit.  Houston can be lined up literally anywhere, including DL.  Miller just doesn't have the strength for that.  Dude did one more bench rep then Dexter McCluster for crying out loud... Houston's got roughly 15-20 pounds on him (probably more, when you look at the two) and is a BULL. 

 

Like I said, Houston can do everything Miller can do.  Miller can't do everything Houston can do. 

 

Miller is asked to set the edge on a semi regular basis. In a 4-3 alignment, that task goes more often to the closed side DE, Derek Wolfe, or the open side DE, Robert Ayers. But Von Miller can set the edge, he can shed blocks, he can cover, pursue. 

 

Alright Seth. You asked for it.

Von has been used as a DE multiple times. With a defensive coordinator like Jack Del Rio, he is used multiple ways.

Here. I'll break down a play for you.

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Absolutely the base 4-3 defense. Von is playing as the DE but is in a two point stance, as opposed to the others in a three.

Linebackers are (I think) Nate Irving, Danny Trevathan and Wesley Woodyard. 12 personnel for Panthers, one TE in the backfield as a fullback. LaFell (11) coming in motion for the Panthers back to the formation. He will chip Von before heading into a pass route.

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Just post-snap. Cam is looking left already. LaFell preparing to chip Von.

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Playfake. Von completely evades LaFell's chip attempt. Von is the responsibility of the FB (TE) Ben Hartsock, who is already squaring to take him on.

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Cam's going to roll to his right in the pocket, Von going to go around Hartsock.

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Hartsock gets away with a fairly aggregious hold on this play. Von goes around him and fights fully free in the next image.

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Cam is going to step left into that open space.

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Von uses some fast speed to close and grabs Newton around the ankles as he's letting go. Badly underthrown ball, Tony Carter pick six.

 

Von showed some great chase on this play coming from a DE. He was assigned a chip and a full block (who actually held him much of the way) but he still got through it.

 

 

Still don't believe Von does line up at DE? Von in two point stance DE positions. (that's Dumervil wide nining across from him).

VDE1_medium.png

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Again, down in a two point stance. (those two images from http://www.catscratc...el-rio-john-fox A great read, shows a lot of Von's versatility).

 

 

So, still don't believe Von isn't asked to set the edge?

    • Chad Jensen likes this
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Lucas Polglaze
Aug 16 2013 06:16 PM

I'll have to watch for Miller setting the edge this upcoming season.  I'm willing to admit perhaps he did it a ton in the other 14 games last year, so I didn't see it.

 

Haha and here I just posted a big reply on that note. Check it out.  :)

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Lucas Polglaze
Aug 16 2013 06:19 PM

I'm sorry, but this debate isn't even close. Houston can't be compared to Miller. All you can say is that they're both pass rushers. You can't even compare Aldon Smith to Von Miller. Because without Justin Smith, Aldon disappears. Not to mention that Von Miller is a complete player. Smith is not. Miller can rush the passer, set the edge, pursue the ball carrier, cover, etc. Smith can rush the passer. Houston is a good player, don't get me wrong. But Miller is a once in a generation type player. 

One month into the season Von Miller is going to have the exact same amount of NFL stats that I will have right here on PFS.

 

0

 

And this is a fair debate. If Von Miller wasn't in so much trouble lately, I could see him holding his own in this argument.

 

After all, Von isn't just one of the best pass rushers, he is one of the best players at any position in the entire NFL.

 

That said, his image as an NFL force is taking a raping that would make Mike Tyson's face tattoo turn blush... Really, I don't understand what the man is doing. Maybe he's innocent like he claims, but if he isn't...

 

I think Denver might have it's own "Lights Out" style legacy building a very short career.

 

As for Justin Houston... Chiefs fans were calling him Justin Hou"stoned" when he was drafted, especially when he didn't come to camp on time during a contract dispute. Places like Arrowhead Pride were hating him initially, it was brutal. 

 

To be brutally honest, I think that the recent image problems are really hurting Von in this debate. The man is an elite player. And the 4 game suspension is going to hurt. But I'm not entirely sure how you can overrate him here. He can do so much.

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Chad Jensen
Aug 16 2013 08:08 PM

Don't number me amongst the legions of Broncos fans who are willing to make excuses for Von Miller. His recent off the field BS is unacceptable. Hopefully, this is a big learning experience and he'll grow up a bit. But that's the only knock on Von.

    • Lucas Polglaze likes this
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Chad Jensen
Aug 16 2013 08:10 PM

And again, fellas. I'm not sayin' that Houston is a slouch. He's not. And as a player, he still has room to grow and that's great. But in a head to head comparison vs Von Miller, Miller wins. 

    • Lucas Polglaze likes this
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Seth Keysor
Aug 16 2013 10:48 PM

To be fair, I never said Von couldn't line up at DE.  Nowhere there is he asked to set the edge.  Like I said, I could well be wrong.  But he's not nearly as strong as Houston. 

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Seth Keysor
Aug 16 2013 10:49 PM

Awesome comments though.  Added a lot to the discussion.

    • Lucas Polglaze likes this
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Lucas Polglaze
Aug 16 2013 11:50 PM

Don't number me amongst the legions of Broncos fans who are willing to make excuses for Von Miller. His recent off the field BS is unacceptable. Hopefully, this is a big learning experience and he'll grow up a bit. But that's the only knock on Von.


And again, fellas. I'm not sayin' that Houston is a slouch. He's not. And as a player, he still has room to grow and that's great. But in a head to head comparison vs Von Miller, Miller wins.



I fully agree. I won't make excuses for Von; quite frankly I'm disgusted.
I'm not here to diss Houston; he's an elite player and that isn't noticed.
But head to head, all homerism aside, I still think you have to take Von.
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Lucas Polglaze
Aug 16 2013 11:51 PM

Awesome comments though. Added a lot to the discussion.


Thanks Seth. Sorry if I came off as being too pushy!
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Chad Jensen
Aug 17 2013 02:57 AM

Both of you dropped some major knowledge. Kudos. Great piece!

    • Lucas Polglaze likes this
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Seth Keysor
Aug 17 2013 02:57 PM

Luc, if anything, you could stand to be MORE pushy!

    • Lucas Polglaze likes this
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Lucas Polglaze
Aug 19 2013 10:55 PM

OK, in addition, just for reference, here are the stats.

Houston 53 Solo Tkl 13 Ast Tkl 10 Sack 1 Sft 13 TFL 1 INT 1 FF 1 FR 36 Ret Yds 0 TD 5 PD 1096 Snaps
Miller 55 Solo Tkl 13 Ast Tkl 18.5 Sack 0 Sft 28 TFL 1 INT 6 FF 0 FR 26 Ret Yds 1 TD 2 PD 965 Snaps

Miller had 2 more tackles, 8.5 more sacks, 15 tackles for loss, 5 forced fumbles, one touchdown...all with 131 snaps less.

Houston had 1 more SFT, 1 more FR and 3 more passes defensed.


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